Jump to content





Photo

March building Project


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 latyper

latyper
  • PipPipPip
  • Banned
  • Workbench

  • 309 posts

Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:52 PM

With the February building contest winding to an end I was wondering where we have our sights set for the future.

The options, from what I can tell, are:

  • The Rural Area
  • Suburbia
  • The Dock Area
  • The Dwarven Fortress Area, (aka that big mountain in Sixtygig)
  • Downtown, (again)

The Rural Area:
The wide rural area is, aside from a lone windmill and a few shops, wide and unclaimed. The sheer expanse of the area makes it an appealing location for our next building event in my mind. Possible buildings would include farms, barns, silos, farmsteads, and others.

Suburbia:
Suburbia already has two very impressive homes built in it. The nice thing about doing suburbia next is that I imagine that single family homes would take less time to build than let’s say, Opera Houses, Town Halls, Pubs, Public Pools, M&P Furniture Retailers, and Coffee Shops. Spending the month of March on Suburbia might also make Sixtygig feel more like a real city because it would look like people live there.

The Dock Area:
The dock area is still totally untouched. The dock area is a great opportunity for Warehouses, cranes, wharfs, docks (duh), factories, union halls, shipping yards, dry docks, and of course boats. The only problem in my mind with doing the dock area next is that I think it would take some greater coordination between all of us to decide how we want it to feel. The reason I think this may be the case is because if Ray has THIS in mind, while I am imagining THIS, and Nekcalb is PLANNING on THIS the whole area might end up as sort of a mess.

The Dwarven Fortress Area, (aka that big mountain in Sixtygig):
I'm against us picking this area. I think that a dwarven fortress requires such an individualized vision that the only real way of approaching this is by a single person or group of persons directing other people who want to be part of the project. I may be wrong but this is not a choice I am advocating for.

Downtown, (again):
Of course there is still lots of room left to develop in downtown itself. However, since the area is already partially developed I think we should be going through a more intensive approval procedure before new structures are erected. The reason for this is that the final look of downtown sixtygig is no longer as malleable as it once was. For instance trying to make downtown look like something out of Assassin’s Creed is probably no longer possible even though it was when the area was first opened up to building.

Again, the above are just my ideas and can just as easily be scrapped, changed or implemented. What I do ask for is constructive feedback. In other words, "You are wrong about 'X' because of 'Y'. 'Z' is the bettwe way to go." is more helpful than "You are wrong about 'X'".

Lastly, if you are a Limbonian I am especially anxious to hear your feedback because you are new to the servers and might have some neat ideas.
  • 0
When you cut me, I bleed out redstone in the shape of an NS-NOR latch.


#2 GarrikP

GarrikP
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran
  • Stone Pickaxe

  • 1,042 posts
  • LocationEast Texas
  • Nationality:US

Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:58 PM

I'd say the dock area needs to be put off until we can get an idea of the canal district.

The dwarf area is also a no build area for now, until the city gets settled.

And while the rural area has room for "development", I'm not sure it's got space to host a competition.
  • 0

<Profound statement>



#3 Nekcalb

Nekcalb
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Inactive
  • Retired Evildoer

  • 1,138 posts
  • LocationCorn Field
  • Nationality:'merican

Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:00 AM

I'd say the dock area needs to be put off until we can get an idea of the canal district.

I don't think the canals will ever happen, it's only been 3 months since SG3.0 launched.


The dwarf area is also a no build area for now, until the city gets settled.

Why? Isn't it part of the city?

And while the rural area has room for "development", I'm not sure it's got space to host a competition.

Odds are only a 1/2 dozen contestants would enter anyway, there's more than enough room for that many small farms, and then some.

BTW. Just felt like being a PITA. :P
  • 0
Refusing to allow people to be paid less than a living wage preserves to us our own market. There is absolutely no use in producing anything if you gradually reduce the number of people able to buy even the cheapest products. The only way to preserve our markets is to pay an adequate wage. -- Eleanor Roosevelt


#4 twilytgardnfaery

twilytgardnfaery
  • Inactive
  • Tree Puncher

  • 92 posts
  • LocationRhode Island

Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:01 AM

I think the suburban build would prove more difficult than it seems for a contest; our primary focus would be private homes, and such a thing is likely to have a more personal aesthetic than a normal build, leading to even more indecision than we see in the current month's contest. Likewise, assuming that those who have not already would be building their own home, it also seems likely to me that keeping the process to a month might scare some possible builders off, or end up with many unfinished entries (this may just be me though; I seem to have both a skewed sense of time and terrible judgment about what can or cannot be completed within x time). To that end, what are the guidelines for our suburbs? If we're keeping it to just the homes of the citizens of Sixty City, we'd be locking out the two who already built their homes (Garrik and Ori, I think it was. Obviously I'm certain of Garrik's), and even if not, they might be at a disadvantage to build simply because they've already built their homes.

I also think that, although Nek was playing devil's advocate, we shouldn't assume that more people won't enter contests as time goes on. I do think that the space issue, if it's true, is a factor worth considering. My difficulty in volunteering suggestions is not knowing the zoning well enough to do so. I suppose I could hold off on this until Garrik's awake and make him show the zoning to me, but I started typing this while I was waiting to see if I'm working or not (seems not, btw). Back to the original point though, Ori expressed some mild interest toward the middle of the last contest, and I'm sure others might find the enthusiasm infectious (though perhaps not; poor Garrik had to endure most of my blathering on about how excited I was to have a coffee shop with a loft and a mildly shady alchemist's spot in the basement). The question I have, mostly, is what the space looks like. Latyper called it an "expanse" and Garrik said "[he wasn't] sure it's got space to host a competition." Which is it? =P

I have to agree about making the Dwarven area a directed project. I know that I don't personally believe that I have a good feel for the dwarven aesthetic (beyond stone...) and I would be very hesitant to enter a competition there. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way. Perhaps it could be a competition down the line with stricter guidelines, or perhaps not. Either way, I don't think it's a good candidate for a March contest.

As for the Docks, Garrik raised a point and

I don't think the canals will ever happen, it's only been 3 months since SG3.0 launched.

I would say you're probably both right. We should have an agreement on what the canal district will be like, even if it means going ahead without the original head of the project. Obviously, not being a vet, I don't know what goes on in that forum (and no, Garrik really doesn't tell me), but he has mentioned that the canals were someone in particular's project. Has it been discussed at all since then, even to test the water to see if the head of the project is still interested in it? If zie is not, then the vets (or all of us) could work out what this canal district would be and move on, or if zie is, zie could set out guidelines (including potential no-go zones) and we could work within them. Again, like the Dwarven area, this could make a March contest tricky there, but perhaps in the future?

All that said, I do believe that perhaps somewhere other than downtown would make a superior target, even though I have a project (possibly 2 even as I type this) that I really want to tackle there. The reason I say this is that because we just had a competition there, despite low participation, it did do a bit to expand the city. Town Hall is enormous and full of easter eggs for those with the inclination to search thoroughly, we gained 3 shiny hangout spots, 4 if you count the theatre (though I'd tend toward calling it entertainment), and an amusing (and possibly inspiring; I hadn't thought to make some of the stuff in there!) furniture store. It's not done, by any means, but it's not empty, either, so I think that two competitions there back to back would be a bit misplaced.

So that's my very lengthy and indecisive US$0.02. Probably doesn't bring us much closer to a choice, but that's what I think about stuff.
  • 0
Posted Image


#5 renic_ixillon

renic_ixillon
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran
  • Wooden Axe

  • 565 posts

Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:14 AM

As THE LORD OF LIMBO I am often consulted to handle the concerns of lesser mortals.

It seems you have it down to rural or downtown (again).

With proper structuring you could do rural this month and downtown again next month.

By then someone can clear up the hindrances on other areas and open them up for competition.

This is the wisdom of THE LORD OF LIMBO . . . I have spoken . . . that is all. :)
  • 0


#6 latyper

latyper
  • PipPipPip
  • Banned
  • Workbench

  • 309 posts

Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:47 AM

Obviously, not being a vet, I don't know what goes on in that forum


O.o

There is a secret forum?

----------------------------------

So it sounds like the rural area is the way people want to go. I'm cool with that. Do you guys think we should adjust the build area from 40x40 for this contest? Perhaps structures should be limited to 20x20 but with a farm of up to 40x40 to go with it? I think that will help keep the rural area from feeling "rural" and not like an industrial farming area.

The rural area for the purposes of this contest I'm proposing would be:

Posted Image
  • 0
When you cut me, I bleed out redstone in the shape of an NS-NOR latch.


#7 Eryng

Eryng
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Inactive
  • Retired Applications Manager

  • 629 posts

Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:51 PM

Or we could go outside the traditional urban suburban and go with a themed build contest. A carnival building contest or a medevil village style building contest.
  • 0


#8 Rayvolution

Rayvolution
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Admin
  • Retired Admin

  • 1,870 posts
  • LocationTexas
  • Nationality:American

Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:38 PM

Or we could go outside the traditional urban suburban and go with a themed build contest. A carnival building contest or a medevil village style building contest.


What if we expand upon the village in a medieval theme? Medium/small sized buildings all meeting the requirement for villager breeding. Players can either make new buildings, or improve the existing ones?

Be handy too, those of us who need to kidnap villagers for our own evil, dastardly purposes will have plenty to pick from.
  • 0

sig.png



#9 Eryng

Eryng
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Inactive
  • Retired Applications Manager

  • 629 posts

Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:58 PM

What if we expand upon the village in a medieval theme? Medium/small sized buildings all meeting the requirement for villager breeding. Players can either make new buildings, or improve the existing ones?

Be handy too, those of us who need to kidnap villagers for our own evil, dastardly purposes will have plenty to pick from.


I like that idea. (Also, I just noticed that I can't type for beans.)
  • 0


#10 latyper

latyper
  • PipPipPip
  • Banned
  • Workbench

  • 309 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:43 AM

Someone, (although I cannot remember who,) was telling me that the entry fee drove them away from bothering to apply. What I'm proposing is a smaller fee of just one gold block :3d_gold_block_16px: , winner takes all. If this does not lead to more people applying the winner will still be able to collect 54 gold :gold_ingot_16px: .

I also want to do the voting differently this time.

I want to drop the rule against voting for yourself. I realize this means that some people may end voting for themselves even if they don't really think their building is the best. However, I think most people would refrain from that and actually vote for whichever building they really do think should win.

Instead of doing an open poll I want to make it a closed one so that nobody can tell who is voting for who. I think this is better for two reasons. First, while I do not suspect for a moment that anyone is

abusing the voting system ... by ... purposely voting for the ugliest building to increase [their] odds, or buying votes from other members.


I don't see the value in leaving open the temptation. If nothing else a closed poll will at least appear more fair and impartial even if nobody ever does abuse the voting system. The appearance of a more fair system is valuable in of itself because more people may enter the contest if they believe that their building will be fairly considered.

Second, a closed poll will hopefully stop anyone's feelings from getting hurt if their building gets the fewest votes, (or even no votes at all.) That way even someone who does not get a single vote can imagine that everyone else liked their building and only lost by a narrow margin. This will help prevent participants in month 1 from being too discouraged from trying again in month 2.
  • 0
When you cut me, I bleed out redstone in the shape of an NS-NOR latch.


#11 Nekcalb

Nekcalb
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Inactive
  • Retired Evildoer

  • 1,138 posts
  • LocationCorn Field
  • Nationality:'merican

Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

Someone, (although I cannot remember who,) was telling me that the entry fee drove them away from bothering to apply. What I'm proposing is a smaller fee of just one gold block :3d_gold_block_16px: , winner takes all. If this does not lead to more people applying the winner will still be able to collect 54 gold :gold_ingot_16px: .

The entry fee may be a little high to some, but in reality it isn't very much. I probably spent quadruple the time just acquiring the glowstone for my project than i did to acquire the entry fee. As the saying goes
"if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch"

I also want to do the voting differently this time.

I want to drop the rule against voting for yourself. I realize this means that some people may end voting for themselves even if they don't really think their building is the best. However, I think most people would refrain from that and actually vote for whichever building they really do think should win.

Instead of doing an open poll I want to make it a closed one so that nobody can tell who is voting for who.


I agree that the voting needs to be done differently, the current voting system is flawed. Also voting for yourself should not be an issue. However i think the polls should remain publicly visable. I am sure a revised voting system will be proposed somewhere
;)
  • 0
Refusing to allow people to be paid less than a living wage preserves to us our own market. There is absolutely no use in producing anything if you gradually reduce the number of people able to buy even the cheapest products. The only way to preserve our markets is to pay an adequate wage. -- Eleanor Roosevelt


#12 latyper

latyper
  • PipPipPip
  • Banned
  • Workbench

  • 309 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:26 PM

Using different size or colored fonts does not actually give your words any more persuasive force. Just saying.

The whole point of the building contest is to encourage community participation in the creation of SixtyGig. To that end we want to encourage greater participation not discourage participation because not everyone in this community is as big a "dog" as you.

Your implied concern that a contest will be made less appropriate for the big "dogs" is misplaced. What ever makes the things you build worthy of big "dog" status is not diminished, restricted, or otherwise inhibited by the entry fee being lower or small "dogs" participating. This is not like a game of football where making the game more accessible for more people, (by taking out tackling for example,) will effect the way you play the game. Lowering the entry fee does not mean that you need to go easy on us small "dogs." You don't have to do anything differently at all.

If we are going to leave the entry fee where it is or even raise it there should be some sort of reason for doing so. While a higher entry fee of course means a bigger prize for whoever wins, nobody could rationally be motivated by it. The amount of materials that people invest into their structures far surpasses the prize of getting first place. As you said yourself,

I probably spent quadruple the time just acquiring the glowstone for my project than i did to acquire the entry fee.


Like a night of poker with your friends with a $5 buy-in, the prize is only symbolic. You don't use the $40 you make for winning on some meaningful bill you have; You use it to buy a round of beers after the game is over for your friends.

Lastly, more participants might lead to a bigger jack-pot anyways depending on how many people enter. This is because 12 participants paying a gold block a piece, (12 gold blocks total,) will lead to a greater jack-pot than only 5 participants at two gold blocks a piece, (10 gold blocks total.)
  • 0
When you cut me, I bleed out redstone in the shape of an NS-NOR latch.


#13 GarrikP

GarrikP
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran
  • Stone Pickaxe

  • 1,042 posts
  • LocationEast Texas
  • Nationality:US

Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:08 PM

18 gold, 18 lapis and 18 iron is not a lot of materials. We actually raised this fee from 1 of each because 1 of each just didn't feel like enough.
If it's too much material for someone and makes them feel discouraged from competing, they would probably make better use of their time building up their own zones and establishing a space for themselves. Meaning, if it feels too pricey to you, it probably is and you don't need to feel bad for not competing.
I won't say it's about being a big or small dog, as that implies to me a status symbol. No one should feel obligated to compete in these, or to feel guilty for not doing so for any reason.
  • 0

<Profound statement>



#14 Nekcalb

Nekcalb
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Inactive
  • Retired Evildoer

  • 1,138 posts
  • LocationCorn Field
  • Nationality:'merican

Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:41 PM

Using different size or colored fonts does not actually give your words any more persuasive force. Just saying.

And you already know my opinion of your opinions. Just saying. Besides i thought you were a fan of rainbow colors!

Lowering the entry fee does not mean that you need to go easy on us small "dogs."

My intention wasn't to imply that i am any better than anyone else that plays on the server, perhaps choosing orange wasn't the best color for my reference to the saying. I was merely trying to make it contrast with the rest of the sentence. If anyone was offended and took that the wrong way i apologize to them.
  • 0
Refusing to allow people to be paid less than a living wage preserves to us our own market. There is absolutely no use in producing anything if you gradually reduce the number of people able to buy even the cheapest products. The only way to preserve our markets is to pay an adequate wage. -- Eleanor Roosevelt


#15 twilytgardnfaery

twilytgardnfaery
  • Inactive
  • Tree Puncher

  • 92 posts
  • LocationRhode Island

Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:52 PM

Someone, (although I cannot remember who,) was telling me that the entry fee drove them away from bothering to apply. What I'm proposing is a smaller fee of just one gold block :3d_gold_block_16px: , winner takes all. If this does not lead to more people applying the winner will still be able to collect 54 gold :gold_ingot_16px: .

I had rather the opposite conversation with someone, actually; the stakes weren't high enough for them to feel compelled to compete. I agree with both Nek and Garrik; frankly it just isn't that much. I was fresh out of limbo for this contest, and it made me think twice initially, sure, but it was more because I didn't have a good idea than because the fee was too high. Once the idea for Sixty Beans hit me, I ran with it. I still have like 6 stacks of gold that I haven't bothered to block and 2+ stacks of lapis that is in blocks. I do agree with the spirit of Nek's sentiment; if you're not willing to make the investment and take the risk, why bother competing? My structure cost a heck of a lot more than the entry fee did, and out of materials that I would have more other uses for.


I also want to do the voting differently this time.

I want to drop the rule against voting for yourself. I realize this means that some people may end voting for themselves even if they don't really think their building is the best. However, I think most people would refrain from that and actually vote for whichever building they really do think should win.

Instead of doing an open poll I want to make it a closed one so that nobody can tell who is voting for who. I think this is better for two reasons. First, while I do not suspect for a moment that anyone is <quote nesting disabled, apparently, this was the bit about trying to skew results>
I don't see the value in leaving open the temptation. If nothing else a closed poll will at least appear more fair and impartial even if nobody ever does abuse the voting system. The appearance of a more fair system is valuable in of itself because more people may enter the contest if they believe that their building will be fairly considered.

Second, a closed poll will hopefully stop anyone's feelings from getting hurt if their building gets the fewest votes, (or even no votes at all.) That way even someone who does not get a single vote can imagine that everyone else liked their building and only lost by a narrow margin. This will help prevent participants in month 1 from being too discouraged from trying again in month 2.

I agree about having a closed poll if that's possible, but I don't see a reason to drop the rule against voting for yourself. You're obviously going to develop an attachment to and appreciation for all the work that you invested, sometimes to the point where it can cloud your ability to fairly assess the workmanship and effort of others.

Out of what has been offered up thus far for actual building context, despite Renic's excellent powers of reason, I like the Eryng/Ray medieval/village theme idea.

There is one other thing I would like to add, at least to open up discussion. The first contest had a max floor area, which totally makes sense, but perhaps future contests might consider height and a minimum size as well? I say this simply because the Duckpub and Sixty Beans are significantly smaller than the other entries, so despite the care invested into the details, a larger entry such as City Hall with the same attention to detail will have more detail, simply by virtue of size. I *could* have just made Sixty Beans bigger, but it would have been wasted space (and completely departed from the cozy, non-chain, and admittedly-hipster vibe I was gong for). I can also see potential pitfalls to implementing additional size restrictions or guidelines, namely that builders might feel compelled to resize a building to damaging effect (such as if I were to increase the size of Sixty Beans), but such entrants could always wait for an opportunity better suited to their plans. Again, it's just a thought I had while building that I thought could use discussing.
  • 0
Posted Image


#16 Rayvolution

Rayvolution
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Admin
  • Retired Admin

  • 1,870 posts
  • LocationTexas
  • Nationality:American

Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:53 PM

Like a night of poker with your friends with a $5 buy-in, the prize is only symbolic. You don't use the $40 you make for winning on some meaningful bill you have; You use it to buy a round of beers after the game is over for your friends.


While I understand your poker premise, even among friends the value needs to be something worth having playing for.

In poke for example, $5 is nothing at all to me. I'll drop $5, multiple times (turny style poker) and not even blink. Because of this, I won't play seriously because I have absolutely no fear what so ever of losing. Worst-case, I might lose 10 or 15 bucks. big whoop. ;)

When I play poker, I play 3 or 4 games with $20 buy-in (with 6-8 people) and the only reason it wasn't $40 is we had some people who didn't have that much money and couldn't afford losing that much. So our happy medium was $20/game. It's just enough to be a "risk" so you actually play, but not so little you just don't care to try or so high you don't want to play because now it becomes stressful.

Having said that, yes, lowering the amount of gold to enter might give us more contestants, but at the same account, the overall quality will be lower. I actually was going to opt to RAISE the entry to 3, or even 4 blocks of each. That way only "serious" people compete. Reason being, while this main purpose of these events is to bond the community, it also has another motive; making the city look awesome! So, if it was dirt cheap to enter, people might not give it their all and the city overall may suffer for it..

For March we're going to go with an idea nek had and use the same voting system we had when we picked the SG3.0 map. This should almost totally eliminate ties, I hope. If we ever have a tie, it'll be a crazy fluke.

Also; no voting for yourself, that's just silly. ;)
  • 0

sig.png



#17 latyper

latyper
  • PipPipPip
  • Banned
  • Workbench

  • 309 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:20 PM

Sounds good.

Does someone else want to post up the March version of THIS? In real life I'm in the process of moving and don't have the time to post a pretty, "all ye' come hither' and build" thing up or work out the remaining details.
  • 0
When you cut me, I bleed out redstone in the shape of an NS-NOR latch.


#18 GarrikP

GarrikP
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran
  • Stone Pickaxe

  • 1,042 posts
  • LocationEast Texas
  • Nationality:US

Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:29 PM

Uh, yeah Laty. Ray will when it is March.
  • 0

<Profound statement>



#19 latyper

latyper
  • PipPipPip
  • Banned
  • Workbench

  • 309 posts

Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:57 PM

Uh, yeah Laty. Ray will when it is March.


Ray is the one doing the leg work on all of these? That sure is nice of him. From THIS thread I got the impression that this was all just member run. I don't see the vet's only forum so I may be in the dark about somethings unless someone makes an announcement like THIS or THIS. Sorry if I came off as presumptuous. I don't have anyway of knowing if I'm stepping on people's toes if I can't see where they are.
  • 0
When you cut me, I bleed out redstone in the shape of an NS-NOR latch.


#20 srm86

srm86
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Admin
  • SixtyGig Admin

  • 1,557 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:29 PM

The entry fee may be a little high to some, but in reality it isn't very much. I probably spent quadruple the time just acquiring the glowstone for my project than i did to acquire the entry fee. As the saying goes
"if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch"

This was the reason I didn't participate in the competition (even though there was some prodding by latyper to do so). I don't play Minecraft enough or have nearly enough gold to warrant putting that much into a project that I would likely get stuck on anyways. Besides, like I told him, my way of supporting the competition was staying out of it and ogling the pretty structures because I am still very much a noob.


Meaning, if it feels too pricey to you, it probably is and you don't need to feel bad for not competing. No one should feel obligated to compete in these, or to feel guilty for not doing so for any reason.

Reason being, while this main purpose of these events is to bond the community, it also has another motive; making the city look awesome!


Two incredibly valid points!
  • 0





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users